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JadeGold

I'd argue that totalitarianism was actually far more prevalent prior to the 20th Century (Louis XIV of France, John I and Charles I of England, the so-called 'enlightened absolutism' of the Hapsburgs and Katherine the Great, ancient Japan, Asia, and China). But even if we accept totalitarianism as largely a 20th Century construct, it offers nothing in support of your central thesis.

Strongly implied is that totalitarianism is a response to a rise in liberal democracies. Understandably, you stop short of asserting this, though it's pretty plain you'd like to do so. If you had, you'd be guilty of both redefining totalitarianism and ignoring history. Essentially, totalitarianism is a form of government where individual freedoms are virtually nonexistant and that all aspects of an individual's life are subject to the desires/needs/whims of that government. Generally, totalitarian regimes rise out of some kind of political and/or economic stife or upheaval in a country. And totalitarian regimes come to power quite often with overwhelming public support for a promised ideal. A charismatic leader and the will to accomplish a specific goal (or set of goals) are also prerequisites.

Asymmetrical warfare--or your 'suicide murderers'--is not necessarily any more of a universal characteristic of totalitarianism than, say, a blue flag. The use of such tactics are in response to an inability to compete in more conventional forms of warfare.

Frankly, it appears you're trying to give CPR to the already deceased notion that radical (Islamic) fundamentalism occurs in a vacuum.

Scott (to JadeGold)

JadeGold:

I'd argue that totalitarianism was actually far more prevalent prior to the 20th Century (Louis XIV of France, John I and Charles I of England, the so-called 'enlightened absolutism' of the Hapsburgs and Katherine the Great, ancient Japan, Asia, and China). But even if we accept totalitarianism as largely a 20th Century construct, it offers nothing in support of your central thesis.

I'd say that those regimes corresponded to the conventional notion of tyranny, rather than totalitarianism. They certainly lacked the "locust quality" as well as the deep institutionalization, of the Spartan Project.

Strongly implied is that totalitarianism is a response to a rise in liberal democracies.

This isn't central to my thesis, and I'm fairly agnostic on it. I merely noticed that there does seem to be a coincidence. But I'm still pretty far from claiming it as a dialectic. I think we have a genuine dilemma here.

And totalitarian regimes come to power quite often with overwhelming public support for a promised ideal. A charismatic leader and the will to accomplish a specific goal (or set of goals) are also prerequisites.

I think you're right on the money about "charisma" except that we need to expand the concept from Weber's notion of a charismatic leader to Gellner's notion of a charismatic society. And I'd also argue that the precipitating cause is as likely to be an opportunity, or belief as a "strife," which the movement often deliberately causes as part of its bid for power. (Hence terrorism as a strategy.)

Asymmetrical warfare--or your 'suicide murderers'--is not necessarily any more of a universal characteristic of totalitarianism than, say, a blue flag. The use of such tactics are in response to an inability to compete in more conventional forms of warfare.

I'm not sure any typology is perfect, but this one holds pretty well. And asymmetric warfare includes a great many strategies that are not suicide terrorism of noncombatants, so you've raised something of a straw man. Indeed, Reinhold Neibuhr argues that some forms of "asymmetric warfare" are justified, though he never makes such a case for the suicide bombing of innocents. But if you want to regard the suicide warrior as an extremely high correlate, I'd accept that.

Frankly, it appears you're trying to give CPR to the already deceased notion that radical (Islamic) fundamentalism occurs in a vacuum.

Actually, I think any religion that lacks a "reformed" component, which serves roughly the same function as the cooling rods in a nuclear reactor, is vulnerable to totalitarian ideology. This applies to the Spanish Phalange as well as much of Islam. But saying people of the faith are vulnerable to the virus is much different than equating the virus with the religion.

Sorry about the mixed metaphors, and thanks for the provocative comments.

Emmanuel Goldstein

Abject drivel. You lack a clear grasp of the core concepts which you are attempting to describe - liberalism, democracy, totalitarianism. In your credit, you avoid a commonly made error when you note that totalitarianism began with Stalin, and do not relate it to communism. However, you fail to provide one shred of rational evidence for your assertion that Islam represents a form of totalitarianism. The closest support you might have found would be a passing mention to "Mohammedism" in Bertrand Russell's "Practice and Theory of Bolshevism", yet you made no mention of it. Rather, you make some vague assumptions regarding philosophies of 'unfreedom', to paraphrase Orwell. I detect the same bullshit our conservative Right espouses when it claims that al-Qaeda "hates our freedoms", as if anyone but the most purile would believe the notion that people want to kill us because we are "free". My suggestion is to read more, and talk less. Learn the difference between a religion and a political philosophy, then examine how the two interact within the dynamics of international relations.

Scott (to Emmanuel)
However, you fail to provide one shred of rational evidence for your assertion that Islam represents a form of totalitarianism.

Possibly because I'm not even remotely suggesting that Islam represents a form of totalitarianism? I am saying that there is a totalitarian movement clothed in religious garb that's attempting to hijack Islam, which is an entirely different thing. And if you're at all familiar with the literature on this topic you'd know that Qutbism conforms pretty closely to some of the foundational metrics of an ideological totalitarian movement, including the mass psychosis as well as a logic-defying Ur-myth and a desire to murder or enslave all those who dissent. (To be fair Qutb, himself, doesn't say this overtly. But then neither did Marx, and in both cases their followers certainly practice it.)

Sounds totalitarian to me.

Tom

It can be argued on the basis of the many times that many Islamic men have willingly killed themselves for the sake of their religion. Some religious fanatics twist the words of the Koran into the form of a totalitarianism such as the Al' Queda(pardon my spelling if it is wrong) or other such religious groups.

wierd

Me confuzed!!! what tha hell is this page about????? I was just looking for some history info!!!

molli

I thought your essay was pretty darn brilliant.

I for one, do not understand how anyone can not understand what you are saying about totalitarianism and how it has mushroomed into a potential absolute totalitarianism in Radical Islamism.

Islam itself is already an all encompassing fascist religion imposing dhimmitude on nonmuslims, while it proscribes all sorts of behavior from when to pray to when to wash and how, and what prayers to say while you wash, ...even imposing the burka on women in labor in some countries...and when you mix that with a dangerous political philosophies you have a very nasty mixture.

This is a fact...or else people just aren't reading their papers. Whole towns are being forced to convert in Africa, convert or die.

And now we see the violence exploding in Europe. Nothing good can come out of that kind of social upheaval.

I see dhimmitude coming to the fair country of France.

Art

This is a disgusting distortion of history for the sake of maintaining a demonizable other in the mideast - another example of "How to win friends and influence stupid people." The conflict between the Delian League and Pelopponesian League had as much to do with a clash of ideologies as the innumerable conflicts between Athens and Thebes did; it was a struggle on the part mainly of Corinth and Sparta to throw off an Athenian bit for empire. Soldiers from democratic regimes are quite commonly sent on suicide missions, although they do tend to be less casual about waste of life than tyrannies; neither has anything whatever to do with the suicide bombers of the mideast, who voluntarily engage in guerrilla warfare including suicide missions because they have no other means of fighting. The reference to the "Justification of the Uses of Terror" is a ridiculous attempt to tar the French; there are innumerable real reasons why the French Revolution devolved from the Declaration of the Rights of Man into the Terror, but the author is only interested in leaving the impression of a French cultural flaw vis-a-vis the noble Americans.

On the other hand, it is certainly true that religion can form the basis for "totalitarian" regimes, as we saw with the Taliban. This is not generalizable of Islam, which for most of its history has been a comparatively tolerant religion. Hinduism and Buddhism have at times also been rigidly enforced. By far the most effective totalitarian system that we know of began with Constans' 341 decree of death for all non-Arians (in 390 revised to all non-Athanasians) within the boundaries of the Roman Empire. By 380 they had closed all 28 of Rome's public libraries and destroyed every stick of sculpture in the city along with half of the public architecture; by 500 dissent throughout the Empire had been almost completely eradicated, every copy of Aristotle in Europe had been burned, and the Athanasians enjoyed an almost total monopoly on information. They enforced their ideology with public burnings, and their reign of terror would continue for more than a thousand years.

Demosophist
This is a disgusting distortion of history for the sake of maintaining a demonizable other in the mideast - another example of "How to win friends and influence stupid people." The conflict between the Delian League and Pelopponesian League had as much to do with a clash of ideologies as the innumerable conflicts between Athens and Thebes did; it was a struggle on the part mainly of Corinth and Sparta to throw off an Athenian bit for empire.

This is a thin excuse. My contention wasn't that democratic regimes were beyond reproach, but that totalitarian ones have certain "signatures." That remains true, in spite of the fact that democratic regimes sometimes launch what you term "suicide missions" (although what they mean by that term is that they're simply very dangerous). I have another post on this topic about a confrontation within the larger battle of Spottsylvania Courthouse about "The Bloody Angle" during the Civil War, which was especiaaly murderous. Nonetheless the people who participated in that encounter still believed, going in, that they'd in all liklihood survive. Those who participated in Operation Werewulf or in the Kamikazi flights had no such expectation because the whole point was suicide, and even if they'd prevailed against their enemey the fact that they'd survived would have been seen as failure. Their death was actually at least as important as the defeat of the enemy, if not more so.

So no, it's not a distortion of history, but a verifiable insight into history. And if you had a lick of sense you wouldn't waste a minute defending it anyway. Bottom line: You've got no idea what you're talking about.

This is not generalizable of Islam, which for most of its history has been a comparatively tolerant religion.

Well, not so much actually. Tolerant only in comparison to intolerant medieval Christianity, but that's not exactly grounds for rejoicing. The Sharia has never, actually, foresworn chattel slavery, for instance. It continues to be justified under certain conditions.

So, perhaps Islam was "tolerant" by medieval standards, but hardly by any modern standard that makes sense.

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